Curse

Trevor Reznik · Jan 04, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I believe the only way to properly balance this game is to delete crappy skills. Furthermore, getting rid of pets (AI=no!) and spirits is needed. Also, most shouts should get the axe. Below is a list of skills that should be deleted. Once they're deleted, the remaining skills can be properly balanced.

I'm sure there's many ok skills in the list, but they're rarely used, and it'd be better in the long run to simply get rid of them. Note that my assassin/rit/para/derv/c3 skills is very limited so I'm liking missing the use of some of them. The format for the list is: Chapter | Name | Attribute (from a list on gamependium).

Essentially, having almost 1200 skills, soon to be 1600, is too many for proper balancing. Skills, consciously or not, are judged against other ones that exist. When the vast majority of skills are crap, it hurts the balance of top skills in how they're compared to bad ones. By getting rid of the crap ones, as well as getting rid of some that simply don't seem to be able to be balanced due to scaling problems (ether renewal, ele attune), the job of balancing will be a ton easier for Izzy.

0 | Signet of Capture | 1Honestly, as I explained in #gwp, it probably should come down to something like:
Hammer Mastery
1 Elite KD
1 nonelite KD, uses all adren
1 energy +damage/utility attack (think IB)
1 energy deep wound

For each line. End up with about 25 skills per class, balance them all really well against each other.

I'll admit I overlooked a lot of skills since I'm not super familiar with the meta right now, and I also have no idea what to do with all the hexes, since individually they all suck. Furthermore, culling a list that long in about 30 minutes leads to errors (sorry, malaise).

Essentially, having almost 1200 skills, soon to be 1600, is too many for proper balancing. Skills, consciously or not, are judged against other ones that exist. When the vast majority of skills are crap, it hurts the balance of top skills in how they're compared to bad ones. By getting rid of the crap ones, as well as getting rid of some that simply don't seem to be able to be balanced due to scaling problems (ether renewal, ele attune), the job of balancing will be a ton easier for Izzy.

Reducing the total skills to x classes*5 skills per attribute (including no attrib), would result in 250 total skills right now. I don't think there is even close to 250 skills out there that are all balanced in respect to each other.

Note that this isn't my personal opinion, as I love gimmicks, but this is just a proposal to satisfy what seems to be the vast majority of players who want a small meta with true balance.

3 | Sunspear Rebirth Signet | 1
3 | Agonizing Chop | 2
0 | Axe Rake | 2
1 | Axe Twist | 2
0 | Cyclone Axe | 2
3 | Decapitate | 2
0 | Disrupting Chop | 2
2 | Furious Axe | 2
2 | Lacerating Chop | 2
1 | Penetrating Blow | 2
2 | Penetrating Chop | 2
0 | Swift Chop | 2
2 | Triple Chop | 2
2 | Whirling Axe | 2
2 | Auspicious Blow | 3
1 | Belly Smash | 3
1 | Crude Swing | 3
1 | Earth Shaker | 3
2 | Enraged Smash | 3
2 | Fierce Blow | 3
2 | Forceful Blow | 3
3 | Magehunter's Smash | 3
0 | Mighty Blow | 3
3 | Mokele Smash | 3
3 | Overbearing Smash | 3
2 | Renewing Smash | 3
0 | Staggering Blow | 3
2 | Yeti Smash | 3
1 | "I Will Avenge You!" | 4
1 | "I Will Survive!" | 4
2 | "You Will Die!" | 4
0 | Battle Rage | 4
0 | Berserker Stance | 4
3 | Burst of Aggression | 4
3 | Charging Strike | 4
3 | Counterattack | 4
1 | Defy Pain | 4
1 | Dolyak Signet | 4
1 | Dwarven Battle Stance | 4
0 | Endure Pain | 4
3 | Enraging Charge | 4
1 | Flourish | 4
1 | Griffon's Sweep | 4
3 | Headbutt | 4
2 | Leviathan's Sweep | 4
3 | Lion's Comfort | 4
3 | Magehunter Strike | 4
1 | Power Attack | 4
2 | Primal Rage | 4
3 | Rage of the Ntouka | 4
3 | Signet of Stamina | 4
2 | Signet of Strength | 4
2 | Tiger Stance | 4
0 | Warrior's Cunning | 4
1 | Warrior's Endurance | 4
3 | Barbarous Slice | 5
1 | Galrath Slash | 5
0 | Hamstring | 5
0 | Hundred Blades | 5
2 | Jaizhenju Strike | 5
1 | Pure Strike | 5
2 | Quivering Blade | 5
0 | Savage Slash | 5
0 | Seeking Blade | 5
2 | Silverwing Slash | 5
2 | Standing Slash | 5
3 | Steelfang Slash | 5
2 | "None Shall Pass!" | 6
2 | "Retreat!" | 6
1 | "Victory is Mine!" | 6
0 | "Watch Yourself!" | 6
2 | Auspicious Parry | 6
1 | Deadly Riposte | 6
0 | Defensive Stance | 6
1 | Deflect Arrows | 6
1 | Desperation Blow | 6
1 | Disciplined Stance | 6
2 | Drunken Blow | 6
1 | Gladiator's Defense | 6
2 | Protector's Defense | 6
1 | Riposte | 6
1 | Shield Stance | 6
2 | Shove | 6
3 | Soldier's Defense | 6
3 | Soldier's Stance | 6
3 | Soldier's Strike | 6
3 | Steady Stance | 6
0 | Thrill of Victory | 6
1 | Wary Stance | 6
2 | "Coward!" | 7
0 | "For Great Justice!" | 7
2 | "On Your Knees!" | 7
1 | Flurry | 7
3 | Frenzied Defense | 7
1 | Skull Crack | 7

2 | Bestial Fury | 8
2 | Bestial Mauling | 8
1 | Bestial Pounce | 8
1 | Brutal Strike | 8
0 | Call of Haste | 8
1 | Call of Protection | 8
0 | Charm Animal | 8
0 | Comfort Animal | 8
0 | Disrupting Lunge | 8
1 | Edge of Extinction | 8
0 | Energizing Wind | 8
2 | Enraged Lunge | 8
1 | Feral Lunge | 8
0 | Ferocious Strike | 8
1 | Fertile Season | 8
2 | Heal As One | 8
3 | Heket's Rampage | 8
2 | Lacerate | 8
0 | Maiming Strike | 8
1 | Melandru's Assault | 8
1 | Otyugh's Cry | 8
2 | Poisonous Bite | 8
2 | Pounce | 8
1 | Predator's Pounce | 8
2 | Predatory Bond | 8
1 | Predatory Season | 8
0 | Primal Echoes | 8
1 | Revive Animal | 8
2 | Run As One | 8
2 | Savage Pounce | 8
0 | Scavenger Strike | 8
3 | Strike as One | 8
1 | Symbiosis | 8
1 | Symbiotic Bond | 8
3 | Toxicity | 8
2 | Viper's Nest | 8
2 | Archer's Signet | 9
1 | Dodge | 9
0 | Escape | 9
3 | Expert's Dexterity | 9
2 | Glass Arrows | 9
3 | Infuriating Heat | 9
0 | Lightning Reflexes | 9
1 | Marksman's Wager | 9
1 | Point Blank Shot | 9
1 | Practiced Stance | 9
0 | Throw Dirt | 9
2 | Trapper's Focus | 9
3 | Trapper's Speed | 9
2 | Zojun's Haste | 9
2 | Zojun's Shot | 9
3 | Arcing Shot | 10
0 | Barrage | 10
2 | Broad Head Arrow | 10
0 | Concussion Shot | 10
3 | Crossfire | 10
0 | Debilitating Shot | 10
0 | Determined Shot | 10
3 | Disrupting Accuracy | 10
0 | Favorable Winds | 10
2 | Focused Shot | 10
3 | Forked Arrow | 10
0 | Hunter's Shot | 10
3 | Keen Arrow | 10
2 | Marauder's Shot | 10
2 | Melandru's Shot | 10
2 | Needling Shot | 10
1 | Penetrating Attack | 10
0 | Pin Down | 10
0 | Power Shot | 10
0 | Precision Shot | 10
3 | Prepared Shot | 10
1 | Punishing Shot | 10
3 | Screaming Shot | 10
2 | Seeking Arrows | 10
2 | Splinter Shot | 10
2 | Sundering Attack | 10
3 | Barbed Arrows | 11
2 | Brambles | 11
0 | Choking Gas | 11
2 | Conflagration | 11
1 | Dryder's Defenses | 11
2 | Equinox | 11
2 | Famine | 11
1 | Frozen Soil | 11
1 | Greater Conflagration | 11
1 | Healing Spring | 11
1 | Ignite Arrows | 11
1 | Incendiary Arrows | 11
0 | Kindle Arrows | 11
1 | Melandru's Arrows | 11
1 | Melandru's Resilience | 11
1 | Muddy Terrain | 11
0 | Nature's Renewal | 11
3 | Pestilence | 11
1 | Poison Arrow | 11
0 | Quickening Zephyr | 11
3 | Quicksand | 11
3 | Roaring Winds | 11
3 | Scavenger's Focus | 11
1 | Serpent's Quickness | 11
3 | Smoke Trap | 11
2 | Snare | 11
0 | Storm Chaser | 11
2 | Tranquility | 11
3 | Tripwire | 11
0 | Winnowing | 11
1 | Winter | 11
0 | Antidote Signet | 12
0 | Called Shot | 12
0 | Dual Shot | 12
3 | Magebane Shot | 12
0 | Quick Shot | 12
3 | Storm's Embrace | 12

1 | Aura of Faith | 13
1 | Blessed Aura | 13
0 | Blessed Signet | 13
2 | Boon Signet | 13
1 | Divine Healing | 13
0 | Divine Intervention | 13
1 | Divine Spirit | 13
3 | Healer's Boon | 13
2 | Heaven's Delight | 13
3 | Holy Haste | 13
1 | Peace and Harmony | 13
2 | Release Enchantments | 13
3 | Scribe's Insight | 13
0 | Spell Breaker | 13
2 | Spell Shield | 13
1 | Unyielding Aura | 13
3 | Watchful Healing | 13
1 | Watchful Spirit | 13
2 | Withdraw Hexes | 13
2 | Dwayna's Sorrow | 14
2 | Ethereal Light | 14
1 | Heal Area | 14
3 | Healer's Covenant | 14
2 | Healing Burst | 14
2 | Healing Light | 14
3 | Healing Ring | 14
2 | Healing Whisper | 14
2 | Jamei's Gaze | 14
2 | Karei's Healing Circle | 14
1 | Live Vicariously | 14
0 | Mending | 14
3 | Renew Life | 14
3 | Restful Breeze | 14
1 | Restore Life | 14
2 | Signet of Rejuvenation | 14
3 | Supportive Spirit | 14
3 | Words of Comfort | 14
2 | Air of Enchantment | 15
1 | Amity | 15
1 | Life Attunement | 15
1 | Life Barrier | 15
0 | Life Bond | 15
2 | Life Sheath | 15
1 | Mark of Protection | 15
1 | Pacifism | 15
3 | Pensive Guardian | 15
1 | Protective Bond | 15
0 | Rebirth | 15
2 | Reverse Hex | 15
2 | Shield Guardian | 15
1 | Shield of Deflection | 15
0 | Shield of Regeneration | 15
0 | Shielding Hands | 15
1 | Vital Blessing | 15
3 | Balthazar's Pendulum | 16
1 | Balthazar's Spirit | 16
0 | Bane Signet | 16
0 | Banish | 16
3 | Defender's Zeal | 16
1 | Holy Strike | 16
1 | Holy Wrath | 16
0 | Judge's Insight | 16
3 | Judge's Intervention | 16
2 | Kirin's Wrath | 16
2 | Ray of Judgement | 16
0 | Retribution | 16
3 | Reversal of Damage | 16
3 | Scourge Enchantment | 16
0 | Scourge Healing | 16
1 | Scourge Sacrifice | 16
1 | Shield of Judgement | 16
0 | Signet of Judgement | 16
3 | Signet of Mystic Wrath | 16
2 | Signet of Rage | 16
1 | Smite | 16
2 | Spear of Light | 16
2 | Stonesoul Strike | 16
1 | Symbol of Wrath | 16
2 | Word of Censure | 16
2 | Deny Hexes | 17
2 | Empathic Removal | 17
1 | Essence Bond | 17
1 | Light of Dwayna | 17
0 | Purge Conditions | 17
0 | Resurrect | 17
3 | Signet of Removal | 17
1 | Succor | 17
1 | Vengeance | 17

1 | Awaken the Blood | 18
0 | Barbed Signet | 18
2 | Blood Bond | 18
2 | Blood Drinker | 18
1 | Blood Renewal | 18
3 | Blood of the Aggressor | 18
2 | Cultist's Fervor | 18
0 | Dark Bond | 18
0 | Dark Pact | 18
0 | Demonic Flesh | 18
2 | Jaundiced Gaze | 18
0 | Life Siphon | 18
1 | Life Transfer | 18
2 | Lifebane Strike | 18
3 | Mark of Fury | 18
1 | Mark of Subversion | 18
2 | Oppressive Gaze | 18
3 | Ravenous Gaze | 18
0 | Signet of Agony | 18
1 | Soul Leech | 18
0 | Strip Enchantment | 18
1 | Touch of Agony | 18
0 | Unholy Feast | 18
2 | Vampiric Bite | 18
2 | Vampiric Spirit | 18
2 | Vampiric Swarm | 18
1 | Vampiric Touch | 18
2 | Wallow's Bite | 18
0 | Well of Blood | 18
1 | Well of Power | 18
0 | Barbs | 19
0 | Chilblains | 19
2 | Defile Enchantments | 19
0 | Defile Flesh | 19
3 | Depravity | 19
1 | Desecrate Enchantments | 19
1 | Enfeeble | 19
0 | Enfeebling Blood | 19
2 | Enfeebling Touch | 19
3 | Envenom Enchantments | 19
1 | Feast of Corruption | 19
1 | Insidious Parasite | 19
0 | Lingering Curse | 19
1 | Malaise | 19
0 | Mark of Pain | 19
3 | Meekness | 19
3 | Pain of Disenchantment | 19
0 | Parasitic Bond | 19
1 | Plague Sending | 19
0 | Plague Signet | 19
3 | Poisoned Heart | 19
0 | Rend Enchantments | 19
0 | Rigor Mortis | 19
3 | Rip Enchantment | 19
1 | Shadow of Fear | 19
2 | Shivers of Dread | 19
3 | Signet of Suffering | 19
2 | Soul Bind | 19
1 | Spinal Shivers | 19
1 | Spiteful Spirit | 19
0 | Suffering | 19
3 | Ulcerous Lungs | 19
0 | Weaken Armor | 19
2 | Weaken Knees | 19
3 | Well of Darkness | 19
3 | Well of Silence | 19
2 | Well of Weariness | 19
1 | Wither | 19
0 | Animate Bone Fiend | 20
1 | Animate Bone Horror | 20
0 | Animate Bone Minions | 20
2 | Animate Flesh Golem | 20
3 | Animate Shambling Horror | 20
2 | Animate Vampiric Horror | 20
1 | Aura of the Lich | 20
2 | Bitter Chill | 20
0 | Blood of the Master | 20
3 | Contagion | 20
3 | Corrupt Enchantment | 20
0 | Dark Aura | 20
0 | Death Nova | 20
1 | Deathly Chill | 20
0 | Deathly Swarm | 20
2 | Discord | 20
3 | Feast for the Dead | 20
2 | Fetid Ground | 20
1 | Infuse Condition | 20
3 | Jagged Bones | 20
1 | Malign Intervention | 20
1 | Necrotic Traversal | 20
3 | Order of Undeath | 20
3 | Putrid Flesh | 20
2 | Rising Bile | 20
0 | Soul Feast | 20
0 | Taste of Death | 20
2 | Taste of Pain | 20
3 | Toxic Chill | 20
1 | Verata's Aura | 20
1 | Verata's Gaze | 20
1 | Verata's Sacrifice | 20
2 | Vile Miasma | 20
0 | Vile Touch | 20
1 | Virulence | 20
1 | Well of Suffering | 20
0 | Well of the Profane | 20
2 | Icy Veins | 21
3 | Reaper's Mark | 21
3 | Signet of Lost Souls | 21
3 | Signet of Sorrow | 21
0 | Grenth's Balance | 22

2 | Arcane Larceny | 23
1 | Arcane Thievery | 23
0 | Backfire | 23
1 | Chaos Storm | 23
2 | Complicate | 23
0 | Empathy | 23
3 | Enchanter's Conundrum | 23
1 | Guilt | 23
3 | Hex Eater Vortex | 23
0 | Ignorance | 23
0 | Mind Wrack | 23
3 | Mirror of Disenchantment | 23
3 | Mistrust | 23
2 | Overload | 23
1 | Panic | 23
1 | Power Block | 23
3 | Power Flux | 23
1 | Power Leak | 23
0 | Power Spike | 23
3 | Price of Pride | 23
2 | Psychic Distraction | 23
2 | Psychic Instability | 23
0 | Shatter Hex | 23
2 | Signet of Disruption | 23
1 | Signet of Weariness | 23
3 | Simple Thievery | 23
2 | Unnatural Signet | 23
3 | Visions of Regret | 23
1 | Wastrel's Worry | 23
2 | Arcane Languor | 24
0 | Mantra of Recovery | 24
3 | Persistence of Memory | 24
2 | Stolen Speed | 24
3 | Symbolic Celerity | 24
3 | Symbolic Posture | 24
3 | Symbols of Inspiration | 24
2 | Accumulated Pain | 25
3 | Air of Disenchantment | 25
2 | Ancestor's Visage | 25
0 | Arcane Conundrum | 25
2 | Conjure Nightmare | 25
1 | Ethereal Burden | 25
1 | Fevered Dreams | 25
0 | Fragility | 25
3 | Frustration | 25
0 | Illusion of Haste | 25
2 | Illusion of Pain | 25
1 | Illusion of Weakness | 25
1 | Illusionary Weaponry | 25
2 | Kitah's Burden | 25
1 | Migraine | 25
2 | Shared Burden | 25
3 | Signet of Clumsiness | 25
2 | Auspicious Incantation | 26
3 | Discharge Enchantment | 26
3 | Drain Delusions | 26
1 | Elemental Resistance | 26
0 | Ether Feast | 26
1 | Ether Lord | 26
3 | Ether Phantom | 26
2 | Ether Signet | 26
3 | Extend Conditions | 26
2 | Feedback | 26
2 | Hex Eater Signet | 26
1 | Inspired Enchantment | 26
1 | Inspired Hex | 26
1 | Keystone Signet | 26
0 | Leech Signet | 26
2 | Lyssa's Aura | 26
1 | Mantra of Concentration | 26
0 | Mantra of Earth | 26
0 | Mantra of Flame | 26
0 | Mantra of Frost | 26
0 | Mantra of Inscriptions | 26
0 | Mantra of Lightning | 26
0 | Mantra of Persistence | 26
1 | Mantra of Recall | 26
1 | Mantra of Signets | 26
1 | Physical Resistance | 26
2 | Power Leech | 26
2 | Revealed Enchantment | 26
2 | Revealed Hex | 26
3 | Tease | 26
0 | Arcane Echo | 27
0 | Arcane Mimicry | 27
0 | Echo | 27
0 | Epidemic | 27
3 | Hypochondria | 27
2 | Lyssa's Balance | 27
2 | Shatter Storm | 27
2 | Signet of Disenchantment | 27
3 | Signet of Illusions | 27
1 | Signet of Midnight | 27
3 | Web of Disruption | 27

2 | Arc Lightning | 28
1 | Chain Lightning | 28
3 | Chilling Winds | 28
0 | Conjure Lightning | 28
0 | Enervating Charge | 28
1 | Glimmering Mark | 28
2 | Gust | 28
3 | Lightning Bolt | 28
2 | Lightning Hammer | 28
1 | Lightning Javelin | 28
0 | Lightning Surge | 28
0 | Lightning Touch | 28
2 | Ride The Lightning | 28
2 | Shock Arrow | 28
2 | Teinai's Wind | 28
1 | Thunderclap | 28
1 | Whirlwind | 28
0 | Aftershock | 29
2 | Ash Blast | 29
2 | Churning Earth | 29
1 | Crystal Wave | 29
2 | Dragon's Stomp | 29
3 | Ebon Hawk | 29
1 | Eruption | 29
3 | Glowstone | 29
1 | Grasping Earth | 29
1 | Iron Mist | 29
1 | Kinetic Armor | 29
1 | Magnetic Aura | 29
0 | Obsidian Flesh | 29
3 | Sandstorm | 29
2 | Shockwave | 29
2 | Sliver Armor | 29
0 | Stone Daggers | 29
3 | Stone Sheath | 29
3 | Stone Striker | 29
3 | Stoneflesh Aura | 29
0 | Stoning | 29
2 | Teinai's Crystals | 29
2 | Unsteady Ground | 29
0 | Aura of Restoration | 30
0 | Elemental Attunement | 30
2 | Energy Boon | 30
3 | Ether Prism | 30
1 | Ether Renewal | 30
3 | Glyph of Restoration | 30
3 | Master of Magic | 30
2 | Bed of Coals | 31
2 | Breath of Fire | 31
2 | Burning Speed | 31
0 | Conjure Flame | 31
2 | Double Dragon | 31
3 | Elemental Flame | 31
0 | Fire Storm | 31
3 | Flame Djinn's Haste | 31
0 | Flare | 31
0 | Immolate | 31
1 | Incendiary Bonds | 31
0 | Inferno | 31
2 | Lava Arrows | 31
1 | Lava Font | 31
1 | Mark of Rodgort | 31
3 | Mind Blast | 31
0 | Mind Burn | 31
1 | Phoenix | 31
3 | Savannah Heat | 31
1 | Searing Heat | 31
2 | Smoldering Embers | 31
2 | Star Burst | 31
2 | Teinai's Heat | 31
1 | Armor of Mist | 32
0 | Conjure Frost | 32
3 | Frigid Armor | 32
1 | Frozen Burst | 32
0 | Ice Spear | 32
0 | Ice Spikes | 32
2 | Icy Prism | 32
3 | Icy Shackles | 32
0 | Maelstrom | 32
0 | Mind Freeze | 32
2 | Mirror of Ice | 32
1 | Mist Form | 32
0 | Rust | 32
2 | Shatterstone | 32
3 | Steam | 32
1 | Swirling Aura | 32
2 | Teinai's Prison | 32
2 | Vapor Blade | 32
1 | Water Trident | 32
0 | Glyph of Elemental Power | 33
1 | Glyph of Energy | 33
2 | Glyph of Essence | 33
1 | Glyph of Renewal | 33
1 | Glyph of Sacrifice | 33
2 | Second Wind | 33

3 | Assassin's Remedy | 36
3 | Assault Enchantments | 36
2 | Critical Defenses | 36
2 | Critical Eye | 36
2 | Critical Strike | 36
2 | Dark Apostasy | 36
3 | Deadly Haste | 36
3 | Fox's Promise | 36
2 | Locust's Fury | 36
3 | Malicious Strike | 36
2 | Palm Strike | 36
2 | Seeping Wound | 36
2 | Sharpen Daggers | 36
3 | Way of the Assassin | 36
2 | Black Mantis Thrust | 37
2 | Blades of Steel | 37
2 | Death Blossom | 37
2 | Desperate Strike | 37
2 | Disrupting Stab | 37
2 | Exhausting Assault | 37
2 | Flashing Blades | 37
2 | Fox Fangs | 37
3 | Golden Fox Strike | 37
2 | Golden Lotus Strike | 37
2 | Golden Phoenix Strike | 37
3 | Golden Skull Strike | 37
2 | Jagged Strike | 37
2 | Jungle Strike | 37
2 | Leaping Mantis Sting | 37
2 | Moebius Strike | 37
2 | Nine Tail Strike | 37
2 | Repeating Strike | 37
3 | Shattering Assault | 37
2 | Temple Strike | 37
2 | Wild Strike | 37
2 | Assassin's Promise | 38
3 | Augury of Death | 38
2 | Crippling Dagger | 38
2 | Dancing Daggers | 38
2 | Dark Prison | 38
2 | Enduring Toxin | 38
2 | Entangling Asp | 38
2 | Expose Defenses | 38
2 | Impale | 38
2 | Iron Palm | 38
3 | Lift Enchantment | 38
2 | Mantis Touch | 38
2 | Mark of Death | 38
3 | Mark of Insecurity | 38
2 | Scorpion Wire | 38
2 | Shameful Fear | 38
2 | Shroud of Silence | 38
2 | Signet of Shadows | 38
3 | Signet of Toxic Shock | 38
2 | Siphon Speed | 38
2 | Siphon Strength | 38
2 | Way of the Empty Palm | 38
2 | Beguiling Haze | 39
2 | Blinding Powder | 39
2 | Caltrops | 39
3 | Death's Retreat | 39
2 | Heart of Shadow | 39
3 | Hidden Caltrops | 39
2 | Mirrored Stance | 39
2 | Shadow Form | 39
2 | Shadow Shroud | 39
2 | Shadowy Burden | 39
2 | Shroud of Distress | 39
2 | Unseen Fury | 39
2 | Viper's Defense | 39
2 | Way of Perfection | 39
2 | Way of the Fox | 39
2 | Way of the Lotus | 39
2 | Mark of Instability | 40
2 | Recall | 40
3 | Shadow Meld | 40
3 | Shadow Walk | 40
3 | Signet of Twilight | 40
2 | Spirit Walk | 40
3 | Swap | 40
3 | Wastrel's Collapse | 40

2 | Ancestors' Rage | 41
3 | Caretaker's Charge | 41
2 | Channeled Strike | 41
2 | Clamor of Souls | 41
2 | Cruel was Daoshen | 41
2 | Destruction | 41
3 | Destructive was Glaive | 41
2 | Essence Strike | 41
2 | Gaze from Beyond | 41
3 | Gaze of Fury | 41
2 | Grasping Was Kuurong | 41
2 | Lamentation | 41
2 | Nightmare Weapon | 41
3 | Offering of Spirit | 41
2 | Painful Bond | 41
3 | Renewing Surge | 41
2 | Signet of Spirits | 41
2 | Spirit Boon Strike | 41
2 | Spirit Burn | 41
2 | Spirit Rift | 41
2 | Spirit Siphon | 41
2 | Splinter Weapon | 41
2 | Wailing Weapon | 41
3 | Warmonger's Weapon | 41
3 | Weapon of Fury | 41
3 | Wielder's Strike | 41
3 | Anguish | 42
2 | Anguished Was Lingwah | 42
2 | Armor of Unfeeling | 42
2 | Binding Chains | 42
2 | Bloodsong | 42
2 | Brutal Weapon | 42
2 | Defiant was Xinrae | 42
2 | Disenchantment | 42
2 | Displacement | 42
2 | Dissonance | 42
2 | Dulled Weapon | 42
2 | Earthbind | 42
2 | Guided Weapon | 42
2 | Mighty Was Vorizun | 42
2 | Pain | 42
2 | Restoration | 42
2 | Shadowsong | 42
2 | Shelter | 42
3 | Signet of Binding | 42
3 | Signet of Ghostly Might | 42
2 | Soothing | 42
2 | Union | 42
2 | Vital Weapon | 42
2 | Wanderlust | 42
2 | Weapon of Quickening | 42
3 | Xinrae's Weapon | 42
2 | Blind Was Mingson | 43
2 | Flesh of My Flesh | 43
2 | Generous was Tsungrai | 43
3 | Ghostmirror Light | 43
2 | Life | 43
2 | Lively Was Naomei | 43
2 | Mend Body and Soul | 43
2 | Preservation | 43
2 | Protective was Kaolai | 43
3 | Recovery | 43
2 | Recuperation | 43
2 | Resilient Was Xiko | 43
2 | Resilient Weapon | 43
2 | Soothing Memories | 43
2 | Spirit Light | 43
2 | Spirit Light Weapon | 43
2 | Spirit Transfer | 43
2 | Tranquil Was Tanasen | 43
2 | Vengeful Was Khanhei | 43
2 | Vengeful Weapon | 43
3 | Vocal was Sogolon | 43
3 | Weapon of Remedy | 43
2 | Weapon of Shadow | 43
2 | Weapon of Warding | 43
2 | Wielder's Boon | 43
2 | Attuned Was Songkai | 44
2 | Boon of Creation | 44
2 | Consume Soul | 44
2 | Doom | 44
3 | Empowerment | 44
2 | Explosive Growth | 44
2 | Feast of Souls | 44
2 | Ghostly Haste | 44
3 | Reclaim Essence | 44
3 | Renewing Memories | 44
2 | Ritual Lord | 44
2 | Rupture Soul | 44
3 | Sight Beyond Sight | 44
2 | Signet of Creation | 44
2 | Spirit Channeling | 44
2 | Spirit to Flesh | 44
3 | Spirit's Gift | 44
3 | Spirit's Strength | 44
3 | Wielder's Remedy | 44
3 | Wielder's Zeal | 44

3 | Death Pact Signet | 45
2 | Draw Spirit | 45
2 | Soul Twisting | 45
3 | "Cant' Touch This!" | 46
3 | "Fall Back" | 46
3 | "Find Their Weaknesses!" | 46
3 | "Go for the Eyes!" | 46
3 | "Help Me!" | 46
3 | "Make Haste!" | 46
3 | "Never Give Up!" | 46
3 | "Never Surrender!" | 46
3 | "Stand Your Ground!" | 46
3 | "We Shall Return!" | 46
3 | Anthem of Envy | 46
3 | Anthem of Guidance | 46
3 | Bladeturn Refrain | 46
3 | Crippling Anthem | 46
3 | Godspeed | 46
3 | Song of Concentration | 46
3 | "Lead the Way!" | 47
3 | "Make Your Time!" | 47
3 | "They're on Fire!" | 47
3 | Aggressive Refrain | 47
3 | Angelic Bond | 47
3 | Angelic Protection | 47
3 | Anthem of Flame | 47
3 | Anthem of Fury | 47
3 | Awe | 47
3 | Blazing Finale | 47
3 | Burning Refrain | 47
3 | Defensive Anthem | 47
3 | Enduring Harmony | 47
3 | Focused Anger | 47
3 | Glowing Signet | 47
3 | Hexbreaker Aria | 47
3 | Leader's Comfort | 47
3 | Natural Temper | 47
3 | Signet of Return | 47
3 | Soldier's Fury | 47
3 | "It's just a flesh wound" | 48
3 | "The Power Is Yours!" | 48
3 | Aria of Restoration | 48
3 | Aria of Zeal | 48
3 | Ballad of Restoration | 48
3 | Chorus of Restoration | 48
3 | Energizing Chorus | 48
3 | Energizing Finale | 48
3 | Finale of Restoration | 48
3 | Leader's Zeal | 48
3 | Lyric of Purification | 48
3 | Lyric of Zeal | 48
3 | Mending Refrain | 48
3 | Purifying Finale | 48
3 | Signet of Synergy | 48
3 | Song of Power | 48
3 | Song of Purification | 48
3 | Song of Restoration | 48
3 | Zealous Anthem | 48
3 | Cruel Spear | 49
3 | Disrupting Throw | 49
3 | Harrier's Toss | 49
3 | Merciless Spear | 49
3 | Mighty Throw | 49
3 | Slayer's Spear | 49
3 | Stunning Strike | 49
3 | Swift Javelin | 49
3 | Unblockable Throw | 49
3 | Vicious Attack | 49
3 | Wearying Spear | 49
3 | Wild Throw | 49
3 | Cautery Signet | 50
3 | Remedy Signet | 50
3 | Signet of Aggression | 50

3 | Armor of Sanctity | 51
3 | Aura of Thorns | 51
3 | Conviction | 51
3 | Dust Cloak | 51
3 | Ebon Dust Aura | 51
3 | Fleeting Stability | 51
3 | Mirage Cloak | 51
3 | Mystic Regeneration | 51
3 | Mystic Sandstorm | 51
3 | Pious Concentration | 51
3 | Sand Shards | 51
3 | Signet of Pious Light | 51
3 | Staggering Force | 51
3 | Veil of Thorns | 51
3 | Vow of Strength | 51
3 | Arcane Zeal | 52
3 | Balthazar's Rage | 52
3 | Eremite's Zeal | 52
3 | Extend Enchantments | 52
3 | Faithful Intervention | 52
3 | Heart of Fury | 52
3 | Heart of Holy Flame | 52
3 | Meditation | 52
3 | Mystic Corruption | 52
3 | Mystic Vigor | 52
3 | Pious Haste | 52
3 | Pious Renewal | 52
3 | Vow of Silence | 52
3 | Watchful Intervention | 52
3 | Zealous Renewal | 52
3 | Banishing Strike | 53
3 | Chilling Victory | 53
3 | Eremite's Attack | 53
3 | Irresistible Sweep | 53
3 | Lyssa's Assault | 53
3 | Pious Assault | 53
3 | Reap Impurities | 53
3 | Reaper's Sweep | 53
3 | Rending Sweep | 53
3 | Twin Moon Sweep | 53
3 | Wounding Strike | 53
3 | Attacker's Insight | 54
3 | Dwayna's Touch | 54
3 | Enchanted Haste | 54
3 | Grenth's Fingers | 54
3 | Grenth's Grasp | 54
3 | Guiding Hands | 54
3 | Harrier's Haste | 54
3 | Lyssa's Haste | 54
3 | Mystic Healing | 54
3 | Mystic Twister | 54
3 | Natural Healing | 54
3 | Onslaught | 54
3 | Pious Restoration | 54
3 | Rending Aura | 54
3 | Test of Faith | 54
3 | Vow of Piety | 54
3 | Whirling Charge | 54
3 | Zealous Vow | 54
3 | Intimidating Aura | 55
3 | Rending Touch | 55
3 | Winds of Disenchantment | 55

Sister Brianne · Jan 04, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

????

What....

Cap sig....thats where i stopped reading....

Renegade26 · Jan 04, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Delete Pets, paragons and ritualists and the game becomes better because balance is easier...

Trevor Reznik · Jan 04, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Brianne

????

What....

Cap sig....thats where i stopped reading....

woops, fixed that. proceed!

Sister Brianne · Jan 04, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Why would you delete stuff??

I paid money for the whole game...

Lets delete monks...that way we don't have to balance those skills either....

(p.s. what perspective do you have, PvP or PvE?)

Aleks · Jan 04, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Is this thread some sort of joke? As a mesmer I noticed that you want to get rid of four of the power interrupts and backfire! I personally think this thread is just an angry flame at all the skills that ticked you off when they were used against you.

Trevor Reznik · Jan 04, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleks

Is this thread some sort of joke? As a mesmer I noticed that you want to get rid of four of the power interrupts and backfire! I personally think this thread is just an angry flame at all the skills that ticked you off when they were used against you.

Are you kidding ? backfire?

Here's a hint, hit b in a town someday, and then watch a game. See if there's a mesmer-watch him. He'll probably be a domination spec. Then watch and see if he uses any interrupts or backfire.
[spoiler]They're bad skills, and if you think they're good, you're bad.[/spoiler]

Ebony Shadowheart · Jan 04, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

So you're saying ALL those skills need to be deleted?

Yeah right. I know many people that use quite a few of those skills. You just essentailly said the all warriors should be sword because you want most of all the axe and hammer skills removed. Obviously you don't like air eles, there go the air skills. Ele attune used in conjunction with a specific attune (ie fire attune) makes it near impossible to run out of energy, except in certain cases such as energy sapping mesmers or spamming flare (5e spells).

No spirits or pets or chants or shouts? Why don't we just delete the entire factions and nightfall games while you're at it? We'll just have prophecies and it'll be all good.

/roll eyes

The skills are there for a reason. Just because YOU don't use them, or feel they are useful to you does not mean that everyone else feels the same way. There are several on that list that I use and that many people I know use. Hell, just watching people in AB, I see quite a few of those used. Take Verata's Aura, its a great example. Necros (and several other classes with necro 2ndary) are forever stealing minions in AB. No, its not all that useful in general PvE or hardcore PvP, but it does have it's place.

You completely snuffed out sins, rits, dervish, and paragons. You've removed MMs and so many other builds that I've lost count. No more bonders, or prot monks....heck looks like you want to remove essentially everything. What would be the point in playing if you dont have options?

InsanityPrelude · Jan 04, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Many of these skills are viable in pve and I think they should not be taken out of the game. So I'm assuming you have a perspective in pvp although i may be wrong.

Ebony Shadowheart · Jan 04, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Ugh double post, but hey I can make use of this I guess.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING? (ok I feel better now)

I see mes use backfire (fyi, backfire is domination) and interrupts all the damn time! Hell, watching HoH Forgot the Ghostly (I think thats the team) uses a fricking minion master!

Aleks · Jan 04, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Reznik

Are you kidding ? backfire?

Here's a hint, hit b in a town someday, and then watch a game. See if there's a mesmer-watch him. He'll probably be a domination spec. Then watch and see if he uses any interrupts or backfire.
[spoiler]They're bad skills, and if you think they're good, you're bad.[/spoiler]

I don't care. The fact that you would remove a skill because you think it's "bad" pisses me off. I paid for all 3 campaigns, and to see content removed would be terrible.

Sister Brianne · Jan 04, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

The point is not to be concise with skills...

Every skill has a use, and every skill has a different purpose

You really need to have a look at that list again, I could rationalize cutting out a few skills....but I don't see the point.

SirJackassIII · Jan 04, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Brianne

Why would you delete stuff??

I paid money for the whole game...

Lets delete monks...that way we don't have to balance those skills either....

(p.s. what perspective do you have, PvP or PvE?)

His perspective is apparently insane. And PvP. He basically deletes everyskill not used in the current metagame. Then deletes some used as well. Then deletes Cap sig and Sunspear Rebirth sig, which can't even be used in PvP.

Seriously, lame pointless joke/flamebait thread.

[KotL]Mjolnir · Jan 04, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I'm sure ArenaNet pay people to make sure its balanced so stop worrying about it and just play the game and have fun. Even if something does manage to get past the great nerf bat is always in the shadows waiting to strike.

Kahlindra · Jan 04, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

So we should get rid of something if you can't see it on obs mode? How innovative.

This is total nonsense. I think the game developers are able to keep track of their skills. It is their job. A new balance will be coming soon, and the game is not going to be broken by the continued inclusion of.... let's take a wild example from your list... disrupting chop.

I can't believe you spent so much time on this.

Phenick · Jan 04, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I don't agree at all that they should be removed from the game... However I understand what you are trying to do...

They should release a competition type that has selected skills for balance reasons much like the core sets in Magic the Gathering... They would eliminate skills that are just gimmicks and create a balanced meta that can be played souly for competition....

However deleting them would detract from the game in a PvE sense as players who don't play hardcore would not have skill progression... Yes some skills are worse then others thats why the game gives you skills slowly and not all at once... It's fun and it allows you to see how things work much more effectively... Part of the fun should be in deciding all this information on your own... Or not...

Trevor Reznik · Jan 04, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

His perspective is apparently insane. And PvP. He basically deletes everyskill not used in the current metagame. Then deletes some used as well. Then deletes Cap sig and Sunspear Rebirth sig, which can't even be used in PvP.

Seriously, lame pointless joke/flamebait thread.

Anyone who thinks that backfire and sunspear rebirth signet make the list bad should not comment. Attack the argument behind deleting skills to make balance easier, don't attack a specific skill. It's not like the list is set in stone.

Apple · Jan 04, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I thoroughly agree with Trevor Reznik and think you should all stop talking.

Sister Brianne · Jan 04, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Sunspear sig is better than res sig (which is widely used) I don't get it.

Red · Jan 04, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

So sorry Trevor... I don't feel that your idea is consistent with a basic philosophy of the game.

As a PvPer, doesn't it give you a sense of pride when you master some new combo or build, or if you come up with something you've never seen in play before? Even if some skills start rolling through metagame, it's usually easy enough to create a counter for it. As a crude example, Searing Flames recently became the new flavor--and yet, with some silliness such as Mantra of Flame, Frigid Armor, or liberal use of Cautery Signet or Martyr and the like, it becomes easy enough to roll through for even the more PvE Scrub guilds.

Balance may be easier with fewer skills, but it would also arguably be better if we removed weapon choices for the warrior, or even entire professions. That doesn't make it the answer, however. PvP would be reduced to nothing but a test in who can execute the faster Infuse Health. -_-

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P.S. That list is so confusing at first...